I found the whole thing very frustrating
to be honest. This um fantasy game we're
all having to play that Trump can
suddenly get a peace deal when he
couldn't even get Putin to stop
murdering civilians.
Um this is a man who refuses to put any
pressure whatsoever on Putin. We have
two sides with diametrically opposing
views. Neither one has moved. So this
idea that we're suddenly going to get
peace is for the birds. We've got Putin
who is already occupying three European
countries. We've allowed Russia to do
this over 30 years to just occupy three
European countries and sit in them. Now
we want to allow him to take even more
of Ukraine because we are more afraid of
fighting than we are of actual freedom.
It is it makes me really really upset.
I'm a first generation immigrant to this
country
>> and I would fight with every fiber of my
being if there was a threat that came to
these shores.
>> I would do whatever it is I had to do.
And that's what the people of Ukraine
have done for their country. And instead
of really supporting them, we've done
everything in a completely half-hearted
manner. And now we want to back away
because it's too hard. It's
>> well and this is this is something um
this is something I said yesterday
yesterday on the show Cor which is that
the truth is is that the Ukrainians
>> very very noly and very very bravely
very very courageously have been doing
their dirty work for us because the
truth is is that Russia is a threat to
all of Europe and they have been bottled
up um thanks to a huge sacrifice of
Ukrainian life of Ukrainian uh resources
blood and treasure they are the ones
who've been keeping them at bay for us
um And if it had not been for that
effort and if they had fallen quickly,
if they had just surrendered, who knows
where we'd be now.
>> That's exactly it. And we also
underestimate just how much they are
doing themselves to make Russia feel
this pain. So all all across October,
there's been a spite of attacks on oil
refineries. These are going incredibly
well. Things in Russia are getting
chaotic when it comes to um people being
able to access just gas to fill up their
cars. There are regions in Russia right
now that don't have any gas at all. That
if that continues, that is going to put
serious pressure on um Russia. The
economy in Russia has slowed down. Every
civilian industry is basically in
recession. And even the defense industry
now is struggling. They're having to put
people on part-time shifts because they
can't they don't have the orders. They
don't have the work. Russia can't keep
this up forever. And if we just had the
courage, the courage that Aabaijan had
without US security guarantees,
Aabaijan, a tiny country right next to
Russia,
>> but we in Europe, comfortable Europe, we
don't have the courage. I I don't
understand and it's so frustrating and
all that's going to happen is Russia's
going to invade again if we keep being
weak.
>> Cora, grateful for your thoughts on that
and much I agree with. I mean we should
bear in mind as well that um according
to the mod which figures these are
backed up by the center for strategic
and international studies in the US the
estimate is that more than 1 million
troops have been killed or injured
Russian troops since the start of the
full scale invasion a million casualties
million casualties that's injured or
killed hundreds and hundreds of
thousands of Russians killed all of
those graves all of those weeping
mothers next to young boys graves that
has an effect Russia is a dictatorship
ship. Putin is powerful, but don't think
that doesn't have an effect within
Russia, even if they think they're
fighting for the right reasons.
>> Good morning to you. I must say your
program this morning has been really
excellent.
>> Thank you very much.
>> Well, that's very kind.
>> I think one of the most important things
that the marvelous all the heads of
government of Europe got together, but
they've been too nice to Putin. Putin is
a monster. He has got the blood of over
500,000 people on his hands and it's
about time we stood up to him. People
say, "Oh, well, he will drop a bomb."
What? He will not. He has an estate on
the Black Sea the size of Wales. He has
a private army of 24,000.
He's going to think twice about that. So
therefore, my suggestion is let's make
sanctions really work. The sanctions at
the moment don't work. And there are two
areas which will really hurt him. One is
cut him out of the Bank of International
Settlements. That means he can't do any
business. Second, make sure the oil he
sends is stopped one way or the other.
I'm sorry. I'm being a bit of a verse,
but I really feel very strongly about
>> No, I and I completely understand and I
agree with you, Christopher. I mean, one
thing that I'm sort of surprised about
in a way for all the talk of Trump
potentially levying extra sanctions, to
some extent, I'm surprised that there
are any extra sanctions to levy. I mean,
there ought not to be. I mean, for all
of the talk of being punitive and tough
on Russia in the uh during the outbreak
of the war, the fact there are still
potentially more sanctions to impose to
me is astonishing. And the fact that,
you know, and this has been something
much talked about, particularly over the
last 12 months, all of these Russian
assets which are in European bank
accounts, they should have been seized.
They should have been seized and given
to Ukraine given how exceptional the
circumstances are.
>> Quite agree with you. Quite agree with
you. We've been far too decent to this
man. I mean, when this man came down the
steps of the aircraft uh at Alaska with
a silly smirk on his face, I mean, there
was Trump there and I might as well have
a bunch of flowers to give to him. This
man is a monster and we're not treating
him as a monster. And I really feel that
uh sanctions have got to be done in such
a way that really works. People say,
"Oh, he'll drop the bomb." He won't. The
man is a monster and he's a coward to
boot.
Russia.
>> Yes. Not so wonderful Russia.
>> Not so wonderful Russia. I'm actually
thinking more um macro level and even
going back to the 1980s.
Um with the situation with Afghanistan,
I wonder whether he's still trying to
make up for that because he was a KGB
officer during the 80s and I think that
was one of the deepest humiliations they
ever suffered. And I think he's looking
to reclaim some of that. I mean, I've
known people to do stranger things for
less.
>> Well, we were talking about this on the
show yesterday, Andrew. I mean, you
know, when we think about the origins of
this, people talk about NATO
expansionism and all that. It's not
that. What this is is a deep, you know,
Putin may be many things. Um, and most
of them, as Christopher is saying, there
are almost unspeakable on the radio. I
don't think anyone could doubt I don't
think anyone could doubt his patriotism
to the point of jingoism, right? He is a
he is someone who is motivated by deep
historical forces and he believes that
the Russian nation has been slighted and
he is acting out of a sense of deep
humiliation after the end of the cold
war. You know, he he's the guy who says,
you know, we in the west we say, "Wow,
the way the USSR was dissolved so
peacefully, that's a great thing." He's
the one going, "No, it wasn't a great
thing. It was a it was a disgrace. It
was a humiliation. We should know. We
should have been like China and sent the
tanks in to Berlin." That's this guy.
That's the guy we're dealing with here.
and he's trying to address what is in
his mind a 30-year historical wrong. And
that is a that's tough.
>> Well, I think when you carry a grudge
for that long, I think anything is
possible. And so, yes, I mean, you can't
take his threats maybe to heart, but you
should take them seriously.
>> Also, also they say, and again, you
know, criminology is a dark and
difficult art, but they say they say
that he also changed a lot during the
COVID period. You know, he was so
isolated. You remember those pictures of
him, you know, only meeting someone down
the sort of longest of long banqueting
tables, you know, like looking like
Howard Hughes or something, you know,
completely in utterly isolated. They say
he changed during I mean, lots of people
changed during CO, but most people don't
have access to 10,000 nuclear missiles.
So, not completely ideal, but um but
they say he changed a lot in that time.
How do you think how do you think
Trump's handling him?
>> Um, terribly. Because I thought the
Alaska thing the other day, it felt more
like
When I saw him come down the stairs, it
felt like the deal was already in. It
had already been decided. There was
there's no negotiation. I truly believe
we don't think in 50 to 100year
strategic views whereas Putin does. So
he's quite willing to take however long
it takes. And we think within what the
four five year political
um
uh we think in the fiveyear political
>> electoral cycles.
>> An electoral cycle. Exactly. So um going
up against that it felt like there was a
distribution of political spheres
happened that day whereas Trump said
we'll have Europe and you can have all
of your old satellite states. Let's make
some money.
It's another spin. Basically,
Trump's trying to do this deal or
whatever with Putin saying about the
land land grab, land swap, etc. Now,
fully commending all the Ukrainians for
their bravery and the amount of lives
that have been lost is unbelievable. But
can you imagine another spin on it?
Okay, say Russia invaded America. Okay.
>> Now they controlled say um
uh California, New Mexico, Alaska. Okay.
And then and then the other the other
say peacekeepers came in and said okay
well what we do we can we can if we give
Russia Alaska
>> California New Mexico and then the war
will stop. What what are the Americans
going to say to that?
>> Well I mean America I'm just trying to
sort of the truth is of course we'd all
be dead because it' be a nuclear
exchange.
>> Yeah. But but this is my whole point.
It's like why should the Ukrainians give
up their land?
>> Yeah. Well, indeed
>> to somebody who's invaded their country,
they fought so hard to
>> keep what they've got.
>> Yeah. What they're being asked to
accept, Andy, is is basically living in
another era, right? They're being
they're being asked to accept living in
an era of 19th century imperialism where
yeah, basically might did equal, right?
And you know, countries including our
own went around the world and said, "Uh,
well, we, uh, we quite like a bit of
your country. We'll have a bit of that,
please." Well, why should you have that?
Well, it's cuz we've got bigger guns
than you. And that was it. Now, we
thought we'd move beyond that in the 20
Exactly.
>> late 20th century in the 21st.
>> But apparently, in Vladimir Putin's
mind, the sort of new ZAR, we haven't.
>> No, it's it's absolutely disgusting. And
I can't believe that the the leaders
that are supposedly involved, you know,
they should grow a backbone and and back
Zalinski up and say, "Look, this this is
not going to happen." Cuz all all Trump
wants, Mr. Cheeto himself. All he's
going to want he's interested or I
thought he did a deal with Zalinski on
part of the land that he was going to
secure it because they did a deal, if
I'm correct me if I'm wrong, I think
they did it at the Vatican, believe it
or not, when the Pope died. um to say
that he would he would sign over so many
minerals for certain American protection
for certain areas.
>> I can't remember the exact part of it,
but I like I say, if you can imagine
America have been invaded by Russia.
Russia had taken so many parts of land
and then they said, "Okay, well, we'll
do a deal and you can keep that bit and
that'll be it." But I just don't think
it's they just need to grow a backbone
and say, "No, it's not going to happen."
And do you trust Karma to have that
backbone, Andy?
>> No, not at all.
>> No. Why not?
>> No.
>> Why not?
>> He's because he's he just bends over
backwards. He's he he's just licking the
feet of a certain Mr. Cheeto.
>> Okay, Andy and Ascot. Grateful to you.